Mother of William Longespee

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(Mother Ida)
 
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#What evidence gives us the name(s) of any of William's siblings?
 
#What evidence gives us the name(s) of any of William's siblings?
  
==Brother Bigod==
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==Brother Ralph Bigod==
 
In ''Un grand feudataire'' on [http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=zeoJAAAAIAAJ&dq=Un+grand+feudataire,+Renaud+de+Dammartin+et+la+coalition+de+Bouvines&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=x7JML8uUWQ&sig=BPbSogOaZ-vxXPSNKZ3qgwj-Gmk#PPA199,M1 page 199 here] we find this : "Enfin, à la droite des Impériaux, Renaud de Dammarlin commandait à Guillaume de Salisbury et à son frère Bigot de Clifford, avec leurs 6,000 Anglais..."  This translates to "...William of Salisbury and to his brother Bigod of Clifford".  Peter Stewart believes this is due to Malo's belief that since William was a son of Rosamund de Clifford, then his brother must be as well.
 
In ''Un grand feudataire'' on [http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=zeoJAAAAIAAJ&dq=Un+grand+feudataire,+Renaud+de+Dammartin+et+la+coalition+de+Bouvines&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=x7JML8uUWQ&sig=BPbSogOaZ-vxXPSNKZ3qgwj-Gmk#PPA199,M1 page 199 here] we find this : "Enfin, à la droite des Impériaux, Renaud de Dammarlin commandait à Guillaume de Salisbury et à son frère Bigot de Clifford, avec leurs 6,000 Anglais..."  This translates to "...William of Salisbury and to his brother Bigod of Clifford".  Peter Stewart believes this is due to Malo's belief that since William was a son of Rosamund de Clifford, then his brother must be as well.
  
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publish a 'monograph' (i.e. an article) substantiating the  
 
publish a 'monograph' (i.e. an article) substantiating the  
 
identification.  That article was never published. - Nathaniel Taylor in a thread on soc.genealogy.medieval</blockquote>
 
identification.  That article was never published. - Nathaniel Taylor in a thread on soc.genealogy.medieval</blockquote>
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Todd Farmerie in a thread on soc.medieval.genealogy, "Ida de Tony...", posting [[Jan 31]], 2008 states:<blockquote>Mr. Richardson first posted on this item three and a half years after Paul Reed, John C. Parsons, Kay Allen, Vickie Elam (all sorely missed) and others discussed the same hint, with Paul and John both offering independently the speculation that the "de Thouy" of the NEHGR article was, in fact, "de Thony", i.e. de Toeny. This was in 1998. (At which time the 'correct' solution in Richardson's eyes was that she was Ada de Chaumont.) In 2002 when Mr. Richardson announced the appearance of this item in NEHGR he gave no indication that the earlier discussion of this item had taken place or that this 'discovery' belonged to anyone but himself, so if you just saw the later post you can be excused for not knowing of the earlier discussion.</blockquote>
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Adrian Benjamin Burke informs me that : "Ancestral Roots 7th edition published 1999 states that William Longespee's mother may have been Alix de Porhoet"
  
 
See also [http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.medieval/msg/03e49a9c305eadf5?dmode=source this thread] where David Faris quoting Douglas Richardson quotes:<blockquote>The first appearance of contemporary information about Ida became known in 1979 with the publication in the Wiltshire Record Society 35:143,188 of two charters found in the Bradenstoke Priory Cartulary in which William Longespee refers (in Latin) to his mother, Countess Ida ("Comitissa Ida, mater mea").  Doug reports his follow-up research: "I believe I first became aware of the actual charters as published by Vera London.  I used to order a good many books by interlibrary loan, especially anything with charters.  Afterwards I saw Mr. Evans' note attempting to identify Countess Ida as a Countess Ida of the continental Europe.  I believe I am the first person to consider Roger Bigod's wife, Ida, as the Countess Ida who was William Longespee's mother.  I went through all the lists of English earls in Complete Peerage until I found one with a wife Ida in the right time period.  In fact, I may have known of Earl Roger's wife Ida before I saw Charles Evans' note.  I don't recall the exact chain of events.  I never seriously considered Mr. Evans' identification of Countess Ida.  As such, I am reasonbly certain I already had Roger Bigod's wife in mind when I found Evans' published note.</blockquote>
 
See also [http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.medieval/msg/03e49a9c305eadf5?dmode=source this thread] where David Faris quoting Douglas Richardson quotes:<blockquote>The first appearance of contemporary information about Ida became known in 1979 with the publication in the Wiltshire Record Society 35:143,188 of two charters found in the Bradenstoke Priory Cartulary in which William Longespee refers (in Latin) to his mother, Countess Ida ("Comitissa Ida, mater mea").  Doug reports his follow-up research: "I believe I first became aware of the actual charters as published by Vera London.  I used to order a good many books by interlibrary loan, especially anything with charters.  Afterwards I saw Mr. Evans' note attempting to identify Countess Ida as a Countess Ida of the continental Europe.  I believe I am the first person to consider Roger Bigod's wife, Ida, as the Countess Ida who was William Longespee's mother.  I went through all the lists of English earls in Complete Peerage until I found one with a wife Ida in the right time period.  In fact, I may have known of Earl Roger's wife Ida before I saw Charles Evans' note.  I don't recall the exact chain of events.  I never seriously considered Mr. Evans' identification of Countess Ida.  As such, I am reasonbly certain I already had Roger Bigod's wife in mind when I found Evans' published note.</blockquote>
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to pinpoint to marriage of Ida de Tony and Earl Roger le Bigod as  
 
to pinpoint to marriage of Ida de Tony and Earl Roger le Bigod as  
 
having occurred about Christmas 1181. - Douglas Richardson in a thread on soc.genealogy.medieval [http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.medieval/browse_thread/thread/8285e02f85046333/0c1e29683c906e3d?lnk=raot#0c1e29683c906e3d here]</blockquote>
 
having occurred about Christmas 1181. - Douglas Richardson in a thread on soc.genealogy.medieval [http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.medieval/browse_thread/thread/8285e02f85046333/0c1e29683c906e3d?lnk=raot#0c1e29683c906e3d here]</blockquote>
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I had commented that we know Ida was a minor in 1181 but Hal Bradley on 1 Feb 2008 pointed out to me privately that : "Paul Reed stated, 'Actually, there is no clear indication that Ida was in wardship, but that her marriage was definitely in the King's gift.' You can find his discussion in the archives."
  
 
==Sources==
 
==Sources==

Latest revision as of 00:34, 2 February 2008

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